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Interview: Penelope Bagieu On Female Representation In Comics And Cass Elliot

Interview: Penelope Bagieu On Female Representation In Comics And Cass Elliot

In terms of how ladies are represented in comics, French artist Penelope Bagieu (Brazen: Insurgent Women Who Rocked The World, California Dreamin’: Cass Elliot Earlier than the Mamas and the Paps) has some fairly robust opinions. Perhaps it’s as a result of she by no means had the feminine position fashions she wished to see as a toddler. Or perhaps the time simply occurred to be ripe with the Me Too motion the place her voice would resonate with readers. Or perhaps it’s that brief, clipped narrative type as reader’s eyes dance throughout her charming illustrations that one way or the other suck them in and depart them craving for extra. Or perhaps it’s a woman standing in entrance a boy, asking him to respect her and provides her her due.

The Beat acquired the privilege to interview this exceptional creator at NCS Fest, the place we caught up with Penelope on the opening night time of the pageant.

Nancy Powell: I hear you’re sharing the stage with the Hernandez Brothers and Daniel Clowes. How did you find yourself on that?

Penelope Bagieu: I don’t know [laughing]! By a miracle? I feel is sort of a dream come true for me as a result of all of them produced the comics that made me understand I favored comics.

I keep in mind studying Locas, and it was actually an epiphany for me as a result of that was the primary time that I used to be studying precise feminine characters with an actual life, an actual psychology and that was so correct. I felt so near them and the ups and downs of their lives. And earlier than that the opposite guide that I had seen was Ghost World. So actually, being on a panel with all of them is tremendous intimidating on the one hand. Additionally, I do not know what I’m doing right here, just like the intruder in the midst of these individuals. However I’m extraordinarily honored and I can’t wait to listen to them. I’ll in all probability not speak in any respect and simply pay attention. It’s going to be superior.

However to reply your query I don’t understand how I acquired there. I feel it’s a must to consider in your good stars. That’s the way it ended up on a panel with them.

Powell: Do you will have a favourite Hernandez Brothers e-book?

Bagieu: Properly, all of the Locas collection, something about Hopey Glass, I feel. I purchased this tremendous version of Luba that I intend to have signed, truly. However yeah, I don’t understand how it’s revealed within the U.S., however in France we had these massive collections of Locas revealed, and I obtained all the large books. And the truth that you possibly can comply with these ladies for therefore a few years, you virtually grew up with them.

Powell: Do you’ve a favourite Daniel Clowes e-book?

Bagieu: In fact, I really like Ghost World, however I actually favored Endurance. It was so shocking. It was crafty in the best way the tales turned out. It actually, actually is a masterpiece for me in storytelling. I additionally love his solo artwork work. I’ve an unique drawing from him that I purchased, and I’ve the good factor on the planet…a Invoice Murray portrait. How can it’s cooler? And it’s a really giant drawing like this, and it’s in my front room.

Powell: That’s superior!

Bagieu: Yeah. If there’s a hearth in my home that is undoubtedly what I’m taking!

Powell: How did you determine which ladies to put in writing about in Brazen?

Bagieu: After we completed California Dreamin’, I used to be not accomplished with telling tales of girls who’ve impressed me. However then I assumed, I’m not going with one other 300-page about somebody once more as a result of there are such a lot of of them, and I don’t need to spend my life writing solely biographies. So I assumed let’s put them multi functional ebook after which I’m finished with this biography chapter. which I’m not, by the best way. Anyway, I assumed let’s record them. Let’s record perhaps 5 ladies which have actually impressed me through the years. However then I began my listing and after a couple of minutes I noticed I had already ten of them. And fifteen. And twenty. I assumed, okay, that is by no means gonna finish, so I made a decision for the completely random variety of thirty. And I assumed, let’s stick with that.

I began itemizing those that I felt the closest to. It was not likely concerning the massive actions. A few of them are queens and a few of them received awarded with the Nobel Prize for Peace. However a few of them saved the lighthouse. And so the vary of motion wasn’t actually what I needed. It was tales that I really like to inform again and again and in addition in a really useless approach. I need to decide those that might make individuals say, “How come I’ve by no means heard of them earlier than?” That was actually one other factor I needed to realize. I needed to select those which are often not thought-about having their tales informed. I needed to shock individuals.

And since they’re very brief tales, it was extra like teasers. I needed individuals to be sort of annoyed and know extra about every of them, do their very own analysis afterwards, if they need. In order that’s why it’s brief; it’s 4 to eight pages.

Powell: Did you will have a favourite individual within the ebook?

Bagieu: Not favourite as a result of I actually love all of them for various causes. Once more, as a result of I really feel very near all of them in the best way they needed to react. Or a few of them are simply position fashions as a result of I’m all the time considering they needed to cope with a lot greater than what I’m coping with. They usually discovered a approach. Even again in eras the place ladies had much less rights than adults, they discovered a means. In order that could be very inspiring.

However the ones which are my childhood figures, I stored them for the top of the ebook. Katia Krafft, the volcanologist, was actually my childhood icon. And that was so intimidating that I assumed, I’m going to start out with ten or fifteen others. Yeah, I keep in mind actually being blown away as a child seeing a lady climbing on volcanoes. And she or he was the one lady doing that. I didn’t even know individuals have been truly going inside volcanoes, however then there was this tiny lady doing this, and it opened so many doorways in my head, like that is constructive! Then I Iearned increasingly more about her life, and she or he was so inspiring.

And similar factor with Peggy Guggenheim that I’m ending the ebook with. I had love-at-first-sight for her story. Once I acquired to listen to about her and the life that she led, I assumed that is that is how I need to be. The place have been these tales once I was rising up, and I used to be I needed to determine to male cool individuals? The place have been the ladies once I was a child? They have been nowhere to be discovered. The women have been damsels in misery or the depraved, toxic, poisonous ladies…however cool, sort, courageous, feminine position fashions? I actually favored that as a child.

I see so many nice comics for younger readers, particularly younger women. And I’m studying them with a really suspicious eye, looking for each annoying trope about feminine characters. There are none of them. You possibly can inform that these books are literally made by ladies. You possibly can inform the best way the characters are portrayed and what they take into account, that they care for a way are women going to soak up this story. As a result of I keep in mind rising up selecting which boy I might be the story. No one needed to be the woman. As a result of the woman sucked, you needed to be the man.

In the present day the women are cool. It may possibly solely result in a era of wonderful ladies. All these women rising up now, they may have grown up with this concept that they are often something that we didn’t develop up with. Fortunate them! It’s going to be nice. They’re going to be nice grown-ups and males to those future males. They may have been boys who additionally grew up considering that ladies can obtain something. That may make a era of males that can be means smarter than ours.

The volcanologist that I used to be speaking to you about? I’ve had at my ebook signings little boys telling me that they needed to develop as much as be volcanologists like her. And I assumed, nicely that’s a part of a mission completed for me. If boys need to develop as much as be well-known ladies, which is what we now have completed for generations with out even noticing…but when now it’s potential, each methods, then we’re good. And see, there’s going to be change.

Powell: Is it the analysis that influences your drawing type, or do you have already got a method in place earlier than you truly write about your topics?

Bagieu: I don’t assume the type could be very totally different from one story to a different, however what’s true is that the selection of colours completely is determined by the story and the surroundings of the story. As a result of it’s a really dense e-book with lots of totally different tales that happen in lots of eras and locations on the planet, you must mark the distinction. It’s a must to have a narrative that on the first look says–I don’t know–India. It’s not a great instance as a result of a narrative that takes place in India was faraway from the U.S. version. However, you realize, you need to consider it in an financial system of colours as a result of all of the tales have been pre-published each week. So I needed to have a panel of perhaps 5 colours for every story to actually rigorously sync my colours and attempt to say every thing with these 5 colours. And that’s an awesome inventive problem. I actually like to work like these colours and see what I can do with that. So the colours are actually influenced by my analysis.

Powell: So in California Dreamin’, you selected Cass Elliot as your topic. What was it about Cass Elliot that attracted you to write down her story?

Bagieu: It’s once more a toddler factor. I keep in mind that we have been driving in my father or mother’s automotive within the south of France. We had extraordinarily lengthy, boring street journeys as a child, and it was the 80s. So on my mother and father’ automotive we didn’t have our seatbelts on; my mother and father have been smoking within the automotive. For some purpose I feel that they had perhaps three tapes. No more. So we all the time heard the identical songs time and again for like ten hours, and their assortment of the best hits of The Mamas and The Papas was part of this. So I heard their songs one million occasions as a child. However the enjoyable half is I had by no means seen the duvet of that album, and I didn’t know who they have been then. To me it was a lady. It was simply her since you solely knew her. Then as soon as I noticed the duvet and I noticed there have been 4 of them, I noticed that she was fats. And that you would solely see her on the duvet of the picture as a result of you’ve the beautiful, perky mannequin and her. And she or he was the one with the voice. That instantly attracted me, and I needed to know every part about her.

Her voice has all the time comforted me. I don’t know, there’s one thing about her voice that it could nonetheless transfer me to tears, even as we speak. Wanting the best way she appeared can be a tough problem to make it within the music business. However method again within the 60s she’s a hero as a result of she was by no means something however the fats singer from the Mamas and Papas. And she or he needed to drop pounds. Managers all over the place and she or he all the time informed them to fuck off and simply did her factor. And that was so daring, and it will nonetheless be at this time it doesn’t matter what individuals say. That was the period earlier than MTV, earlier than music movies.

However it’s true that at this time it might be even more durable. I feel that again then it’s not true that folks cared solely about music. I imply she needed to be skinny and fairly. It was horrible; I noticed comedy TV exhibits the place she was invited as a visitor and all of the jokes have been solely about the truth that she was fats. She needed to undergo this and smile.

She was a real icon.  She had all the chances towards her to get the place she needed to be.

Powell: I had heard the tales about her choking, till I learn the ebook.  Now I’ve I began to hone in on her voice, and also you’re proper. That’s all I hear.

Bagieu: Oh sure; her voice. You already know on the finish of their profession they have been referred to as Cass Elliot and the Mamas and The Papas. They have been advertising every part round her as a result of she was the favourite of everybody. There was expertise for songwriting with John, however the voice that folks love, what makes the track California Dreamin’, what it’s is her voice as a result of should you take away her voice it’s simply an annoying people ballad with nothing. So she was a real genius. And even that choking on the sandwich factor is simply plain fats shaming. She had a coronary heart assault. She was in very, very dangerous well being situation and she or he simply had a coronary heart assault. However once more it’s humorous to think about a sick lady dying since you choke on a sandwich so let’s simply put that mythology. That’s driving me loopy.

Powell: Do you have got a favourite Cass Elliot music?

Bagieu: Sure I’ve. It’s not a favourite as a result of relying on the occasions of my life; it’s revolving. However the one nonetheless engaged on me in a shocking, shifting means is Midnight Voyage as a result of the final minute of it’s Cass, singing alongside. And she or he provides every part and her voice is like…she alternates, which I feel is the power of her voice. She retains alternating in the midst of sentences between her baby voice–as a result of she actually has the voice of the little woman sooner or later–after which all of the sudden there’s a lot strengthening. And it’s heartbreaking. It tells you every thing about her. It’s robust and weak. It’s lovely. I all the time have tears in my eyes once I take heed to it, even in the present day, and I’ve heard it a thousand occasions.

Powell: So what’s your subsequent e-book undertaking?

Bagieu: I’m engaged on an adaptation of Roald Dahl’s The Witches. That ought to come out early 2020. I’m truly engaged on it at present as a result of I’ve a really tight schedule for the ebook. And it’s like a dream come true. It was my favourite, favourite e-book as a child. I nonetheless can’t consider the authorized miracle that my writer managed to have the rights for this. So I’m tremendous excited and I’m working intently with Luke, who’s Roald Dahl’s grandson and who’s the gate keeper of the spirit of the guide. And who helps me so much to not lose this unique spirit whereas on the similar time writing it my approach as a result of I’ve all the time had this very exact imaginative and prescient of this boy and the characters in the best way I pictured that. And what I might become the story if it was me.

And so I’m actually so excited to do that. I really feel so privileged. They’ve by no means accomplished any comics variations of Roald Dahl’s books earlier than so I’m very, very pleased.

Powell: Are there any specific artists if you wish to meet this weekend?

Bagieu: Nicely, you imply besides those that I’m assembly on Sunday and my panel? I simply received out of a panel with Joyce Farmer, and that was so enlightening as a result of we have been discussing censorship and being underground comedian artists as ladies. And she or he was telling about all of the shit you must undergo writing comics within the 70s the place you possibly can get arrested. And the way she created Tits and Clits, and even simply the title was sufficient to ship her to jail. She advised us that she was now engaged on a guide referred to as Submit-Menopausal Ladies Additionally Get Sexy. It was so nice and I felt so fortunate to satisfy her. hat was an awesome panel, actually. It was principally ladies, however there was one other Penelope; that by no means occurred earlier than.

There have been two counties I’ve by no means seen, and it’s a really combined and good high quality variety of authors this weekend.

Powell: I’m such a fan of yours. Thanks for sitting down with The Beat.

Bagieu: Thanks a lot.

Nancy likes to learn and write about comics in her spare time when she isn’t too busy coping with the woes of the enterprise world.

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